Counting time, calculate and display?

[M*I*B]

Hello community...

... I'm back... Unfortunately, health and other concerns prevented me from doing so... But now things are back to almost the same as before...

Before I invest a lot of time (and money) in a new mini-project, I would rather ask the experts here whether it is that easy. Better ask then sorry... or not?!

Task:
Recording of the oil consumption of a heating system, determined via the on-time of the solenoid valve, after the time/oil quantity factor has been determined by "litering" (as long as the pressure and nozzle remain the same, this is fairly accurate).

Idea:

• Record the duty cycle of a solenoid valve with a resolution of 1/10 second
• Calculating the recorded time with the calibration factor
• Show result on small OLED (continuous)
• Subtract result from a stored (Tank-level / filling) value and display (continuously)

One problem I see here is that the ESP has no connection to a WLAN and therefore does not get a precise time trigger. So it's not entirely clear to me how I can ensure that the measured times are sufficiently precise. If you consider that it takes quite a while until, for example, 4500 liters are consumed (around 2 years more or less), then deviations in the ms range will have a significant impact over time.
One possibility would of course be to have a DSL connection installed on the property. But that costs around €30/month just for that. So pretty stupid. Another option would be a DCF receiver. But I don't know if this can be implemented at all.

As you can see, there are a lot of uncertainties that I would like to brainstorm with you about; Of course, further ideas are always welcome...

[TD-er]

A very simple and cheap way to get proper idea of time without wander is to use a GPS module.
Only requirement is to have a clear view to the sky.
Well it does work on my desk too, but only a few hours a day in total...
You can also add a RTC clock chip to it with its own coin cell to keep track of the time.
ESPEasy has support for quite a few really cheap ones.

And to make sure you're not relying on an aggregated values of small timed pulses, you can also keep track of pulses over a longer period to reduce the error due to small deviations in sample time.

You can also record samples to the flash storage via the "Cache controller", which allows you to chart the values later over a longer time.
This cache controller does store sample values + timestamp. (in seconds)
It takes roughly 24 bytes per sample, so if you only store a few datapoints when the solenoid turns on/off (e.g. temp/hum/solenoid state/tank level) then you can track this information over an extremely long period on 8MB flash (16M ESP32 units will get an 8M LittleFS partition)

[Ath]

A few remarks (not a complete answer )

- Please use an ESP32 type of unit for your project (either an ESP32 Classic, S3, C3 or C6, the S2 is a bit odd/poorly supported by Arduino, and C2 is hardly cheaper than a C3 but somewhat less capable). If possible, get one with 16MB Flash (Classic, S3 or C6), so you can install a MAX build, including all plugins and features.
- You can use a battery backed external RTC time-source, connected via I2C, that are quite accurate and stable, see: https://espeasy.readthedocs.io/en/lates ... ime-source
- OLED Displays tend to burn-in when active with (nearly) the same content, so keeping them on for a prolonged period of time can cause 'damage' to the display. The OLED plugins support a display button and a time-out on the display, so there are ways to prevent that
- OLED Displays are quite small and low resolution, maybe a TFT is more useable, as they are available at least up to 5" diagonal sizes, and resolutions up to 320x480 pixels, P095, P116.

[M*I*B]

Ohhh japp... GPS are also a way... Haven't thought about it. Many Thanks for all the hints and remarks... That's very helpful!

I could put a GPS on the roof of the property or on the roof of the shed in front of the property. In both cases I can get there with less than 10m of cable; would that still work?
What or which GPS modules run smoothly under the OS? Are there any recommendations?
In my opinion that would at least be more accurate than an RTC... Or not? And I wouldn't need to set a clock and would have the date and time directly available...

The cache thing is important and I forgot to mention it. Of course, the collected data must not disappear in the event of a power failure. Of course, I can buffer the ESP and GPS for a short time with a battery or a GoldCap so that the ESP has enough time to write everything down in the event of a power failure.

The advice about the OLED is good. Anyway, I planned to only turn it on when requested manually, as I know burn-in all too well. But an LCD would be too much here, except the one attached. Only the current consumption since X and the remaining amount of oil (and perhaps the time and date) should be displayed. It also has to fit into a free slot on the heating-controller. There isn't much space in the width and it's just enough for an OLED.


What's about this one attached? AllInOne with color TFT. It doesn't fit all the way in, but from the looks of it you can remove the display; then it fits...

Code: Select all

Hardware specifications:
     Chipset: ESPRESSIF-ESP32 240MHz Xtensa® single/dual core 32-bit LX6 microprocessor
     FLASH: QSPI flash 16MB
     SRAM: 520KB SRAM
     USB to TTL: CH9102
     Modular interface: UART SPI SDIO I2C LED PWM TV PWM I2S IRGPIO ADC capacitor touch sensor DACLNA preamplifier
     Display: IPS ST7789V 1.14 inch
     Working voltage: 2.7V-4.2V
     Working current: Above 60MA
     Quiescent current: About 120uA
     Working temperature range: -40 ~ +85
     Size & Weight: 51.52*25.04*8.54mm (7.81g)

[TD-er]

Those boards with display attached often are not easy to separate from eachother and extend the wiring as they will be using those flexible PCBs to connect.

GPS over longer distance might not be a very good idea as the signal can pick up quite a lot of noise.
You could however install some very basic access point. Just to provide network connectivity among nodes.
This way you can have one ESPEasy device close to the GPS and then they will keep eachother in sync via the ESPEasy p2p protocol.

Right now you can't restore on boot from the cache controller, but I guess that can be added as a feature.
If there is a power outage, does the heater still work?
Will the heater turn off when the power is out?
How cold/hot does it get there? (how safe is it to use Lithium batteries?)

[M*I*B]

... hmmm ok ... If the displays are glued that's not so nice... I just need the display swap 90° so that the board stay upward behind. Maybe this combination is available separate with a longer cable...

I have find a UBLOX GPS that offers serial data instead of I²C. So if I can use that the long wire isn't a problem. If I place the GPS on the shed it is about 6m. At 9600bd this is absolutely no problem. The only question is whether serial data is supported by the OS instead of I²C. But even I²C shouldn't be a problem over the distance if you use a good shielded cable, at least I think so. There are hardly any cables on the way from the burner to outside to the shed anyway. I would risk that according to the motto “Try makes you wise”. I would then hang the cable along the copper pipes of the heater anyway, which in themselves serve as a shield...

What do you mean by restore? Does that mean that once the data is written away, I can't use it again when I restart? Sorry... I just don't understand...
Actually I wanted to do it like this:
A PIN for detecting whether there is mains voltage or not.
Another PIN for recording the solenoid valve.
If the mains voltage goes away, buffer the ESP with GoldCAP for a few seconds so that it can write away the data. When the power returns, insert the previously saved data and continue...
Doesn't work that way?

And yes... If the power goes out, the burner goes out too. And it is only slightly warmer there than in the other basement rooms. The isolation is very good and it never gets warmer than 2-3k over the other basement rooms. Ok, into the controller it's a little warmer then but let it be at maximum by 30°C... So it's not a problem

[Ath]

As said, that TTGO module with 16 MB flash doesn't allow the display to be removed without breaking it. And a separate OLED display often comes with a connector mounted at 90 degrees, making it at least 2 cm thick in total, without cutting off or de-soldering the connector pins.
Also, that same TTGO module needs a specific fix, as it is probably wrongly labelled, as the current release build doesn't support it, but I got that fixed in this PR

There are also a lot of separate models of TFT displays available, as shown in the documentation for P095 and P116.

GPS is usually to be connected via serial, as I2C doesn't allow for long cables, where serial does, especially the usually 9600 baud connection used by GPS modules.

[M*I*B]

As said, that TTGO module with 16 MB flash doesn't allow the display to be removed without breaking it. And a separate OLED display often comes with a connector mounted at 90 degrees, making it at least 2 cm thick in total, without cutting off or de-soldering the connector pins.

Ok, so I don't try to disassemble it... However, I am only limited in width based on the module size of the heating-controller box. Otherwise, the available height and depth of the modules is determined by the size of a Euro board. So I can build in depth...
I will search for a matching display... Maybe I have luck...

GPS is usually to be connected via serial,

Yapp... I only know this serial GPS. I haven't physically seen any other yet but know that there are some with other interfaces like I²C. So a simple serial connection to the ESP will work? Right?

[Ath]

So a simple serial connection to the ESP will work? Right?

Yes, and that can be rather long (15+ meter), if required, because of the low speed (30+ years ago I used to connect serial terminals at 19200 baud with 80-100 meter cables, but that used +/-12V signals...). When using an UTP cable for this serial connection, it should be quite reliable.

[M*I*B]

(30+ years ago I used to connect serial terminals at 19200 baud with 80-100 meter cables, but that used +/-12V signals...)

... then you're at least as old as you fit into my decade... That's how I know it too... Complete networks with Apple-ie and serial connections... and some self-made 300bd acoustic coupler

[TD-er]

Such long cables, was that still serial or was it RS485? (or other variants with differential signals)

I know that using link cables > 5m was often an issue while copying data using Norton Commander or laplink or Ghostlink (I hope I don't mix up the names)
But those were using higher speeds.

[Ath]

Such long cables, was that still serial or was it RS485? (or other variants with differential signals)

It was the original, old RS232 standard, at + and - 12V signal (effectively 24V )

I know that using link cables > 5m was often an issue while copying data using Norton Commander or laplink or Ghostlink (I hope I don't mix up the names)
But those were using higher speeds.

That was even using some 4-wire connection, with the correct port (parallel printer-port) and cable, but it would also support serial ports. Length (and cable) was limited to ~2mtr, and the cable that came in the box

[M*I*B]

... ok ...
All small and matching Displays I can find are OLED (0,96" and 1,3"). The smallest LCD/TFT are up from 1,8" and also SPI and touch...
The smallest TFT without touch is this: https://www.ebay.de/itm/255283290270
I can move a control module and then have 50mm of space; would therefore fit (module width is n*25mm).

So the question is: Will that also work? Can I connect this TFT to an ESP32 and have left enough other ports free for the Valve-Input (1 port), GPS RS232 (2 ports) and maybe one port for 1wire temps and another one for i.e. switch-input?

This is going to be tight, isn't it?

[Ath]

That display is one of the types that's supported by P116, so that should work just fine.
Can't see the exact dimensions, but it should fit within the 50mm space available when mounted in landscape mode. Maybe more important is the depth behind the front, will there be enough space to install the ESP32?
Connection-wise it should be fine, ESP32 has much more GPIO pins available then any ESP8266, and does support up to 3 serial connections without additional hardware, so again, no expected problems there.

[M*I*B]

That display is one of the types that's supported by P116, so that should work just fine.

Perfect! Then I will order it soon...

Can't see the exact dimensions, but it should fit within the 50mm space available when mounted in landscape mode. Maybe more important is the depth behind the front, will there be enough space to install the ESP32?

Dimensions are W=36mm x H=56mm. So it will match the available width and height. And depth? Fore sure! The controller based on a 19" slot in for euro cards (100x160). So I have more than enough space behind for the ESP, for an battery and maybe a dedicated PSU.

Connection-wise it should be fine, ESP32 has much more GPIO pins available then any ESP8266, and does support up to 3 serial connections without additional hardware, so again, no expected problems there.

Perfect!

So I start my order with an 16MB ESP32, the TFT, a Ublox GPS with RS232TTL... more then enough 1wire 18B12 I have on stock and also many sizes of LiIon and LiPo, GoldCap's, Hi-voltage Optocoupler, HV C's and the good classical analog transformers.
And if all have arrived I start printing the front panel to match the TFT as good as possible. Just have to look where I can buy dark brown PTEG...

[Ath]

... more then enough 1wire 18B12 I have on stock and ...

You can connect up to 4 1-Wire temperature sensors per task, and a total of 32 tasks per ESP32, so you should be fine there too

And if all have arrived I start printing the front panel to match the TFT as good as possible. Just have to look where I can buy dark brown PTEG...

Like here? https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/3d-printe ... ament/petg (and probably many other sources, but that's just the shop I order a lot of my electronics from )

[M*I*B]

Like here? https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/3d-printe ... ament/petg (and probably many other sources, but that's just the shop I order a lot of my electronics from )

Sure... but they also have only the standard poop-colored brown. I need it darker to come near the original...

[TD-er]

Have you looked at Prusament?
https://www.prusa3d.com/en/category/filament/
And if it doesn't need to be PETG, you can choose more colors.
For example this one looks nice: https://www.prusa3d.com/en/product/prus ... gment-1kg/

[M*I*B]

... for sure... But this dark brown seems to be unavailable at all known filament dealer... Looks like this dark brown is not available from anyone, whether prusa, sunlu, geeetech, jayo, crealty, overture, esun or whatever. It is probably not in demand across the market and therefore not offered...
If all else fails I'll just print it in black or a contrasting color...

[TD-er]

I know Prusa did have "Mystic Brown", which is a very nice color.
Too bad they don't have it anymore.

Maybe you can just go for some "Urban Grey" as that's by far the easiest PETG to print with and then prime it and paint it?

[M*I*B]

... this https://www.prusa3d.com/en/product/prus ... gment-1kg/ is not so far away. But I think that PLA is not a good choice for a engineering part in a warm and oil-dust area...
And painting is an option... but I'm lazy.. you know?
I will look around the next days here and there... And if not then it will be black or maybe signal orange as contrast...
At the moment my printers are completely busy printing small shingles to replace rotten wooden shingles on two small "duck houses"... There are around 280 pieces... that takes a while, even if they are only 6 layers high (Cura draft with 0.3 nozzle)

[TD-er]

Hmm not sure how well 3D printed shingles will hold outside.
Water may get in the seems and when it starts freezing, it may crack open.

[M*I*B]

... I print it with PETG. And also the shingles are more for look and feel then for preventing water.
There is another layer of truck tarpaulin under the crossbars to protect against moisture. So even if water passes by or comes through cracks that have formed, it doesn't actually matter. It's at least worth a try... The wooden shingles rot very quickly, even if they are extremely impregnated. Moss, algae and fungi form on it, which then destroys the wood and the impregnation...

[M*I*B]

Hi there...

today the displays are arrived here. I'll probably take the 1.3" OLED. That fits best into a 50mm front panel.
In the CAD I still have to insert a button for the time-controlled switching on of the display and perhaps an LED that flashes every second (or something similar).
The GPS module arrived here yesterday. I only tested it on the PC and it works perfectly so far.
Now I'm just waiting for the ESP's...
Question is, how much information I can place on the display. I like to have (by line):

Code: Select all

L1: Date & Time
L2: VL=xy.z°C  VR=xy,z°C
L3: HW=xy.z°C  WW=xy,z°C
L4: Liters sice Refill
L5: Liters last Day / Liter last Week
(L6: Liters still in the tank)

Will that match? I can't test it due I haven't an ESP at hand right now...

[Ath]

Using the OLed Framed plugin (P036) you can present multiple pages (frames) of information, that's still quite readable when using 2 or 3 lines per page. It has the time-out setting, and you can wake, and manually page (configurable), using a single push-button.
Date & Time can be part of the header, and you can set up 12 lines of information, that be split into 1..4 lines per page, where the information will scroll horizontally if it doesn't fit within the display width.

[M*I*B]

PERFECT!

[M*I*B]

... grrr ...
Momentary switches with DUO or RGB - LED are exorbitant expensive...
On... Plan B...

I will use a momentary with a white or blue LED. The LED are ever on but with very low intensity. I think it's a good idea, if I let the LED show a heartbeat every second. I can switch a parallel resistor to the LED via FET.

Question here: Is there a simple possibility to send a puls to any port synchronized with the seconds I catch from the GPS and stop it if the GPS-signal is lost? The you can see on the 1st view if all ok without the need to push the button and enable the display...

[TD-er]

Yep, you can just schedule a looptimer via the rules to turn on/off a running (repeating) longpulse command.
In this periodical timer event you can check the fix status. If it has a fix you can be sure the received time is also correct.

But there are lots of ways to achieve the same.

[M*I*B]

That was my first thought too. But the second idea was to use a second change in the GPS as a tick: no second change = no tick = shit

I think I have to wait for the arrival of the ESP's. Then it's better to try (& error) all the way...

BTW: This will do very well for a soft Heartbeat. The length of the pulse can control the intensity in borders, the R/C make it smooth. Haven't calculated the time constant; just out of the stomach ...

[M*I*B]

In the meantime I have already finished the housing for the GPS. The bottom part and antenna holder are currently being printed... Let's see what kind of crap I've come up with again

img-2024-03-27-12-12-30.png (156.66 KiB) Viewed 1072 times

And if someone happens to know how to put text on a spherical surface in FreeCAD (0.22.0dev) and has the time and desire to teach me... That would be cool

[TD-er]

You can do it in the latest Prusa Slicer.
This also can export to various 3D formats, so you don't need to print with it.

[M*I*B]

You can do it in the latest Prusa Slicer.

Yes, I have read about, but I like to know how it works in FreeCAD. I know that the learning curve is high if I like to dig deeper in FreeCAD, but I really like to know...

[TD-er]

Well I can't help you there as I'm not familiar with Freecad myself.

[M*I*B]

... I didn't expect that everyone here would work with FreeCAD. Maybe someone else will turn up who has this on their radar. It's at least worth a try...
I had also tried other CAD programs before. But in the end I stuck with FreeCAD, even though the level of frustration at the beginning is very high as a beginner. FreeCAD has its quirks and some things are completely illogical or are simply missing (e.g. the ability to specify basic paths for fonts, export, FC files and the like for ages).
But it's free, can do a lot (if you can do it), runs quite well even on small machines and works offline without a crappy cloud (cloud-based software is an absolute knockout criterion for me).

[TD-er]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have been able to help you.
I simply didn't have the time yet to start my FreeCAD learning curve as I also like to use open/free software.
Right now I still draw my 3D designs in TinkerCAD.

[M*I*B]

... don't worry: I already understood you. Maybe I did not express myself correctly.
That wasn't an accusation or anything like that. FreeCAD users are just rarer than expected, at least those who have such tricks in their pocket...

[M*I*B]

Ok...

today the ESP was in the post box. They look different then what I have ordered. May you like to take a look? I have a bad feeling about it...

Ordered this: https://www.ebay.de/itm/314302581059?var=612943993669
Got 5 piece of the one attached...

IMG_0103.jpg (87.11 KiB) Viewed 897 times

Some other...
Is meanwhile only the WebFlasher supported? The WebFlasher don't work with FireFox and also not with EDGE.

Clipboarder.2024.04.03.jpg (18.32 KiB) Viewed 897 times

Can I flash that old school either? And if there are a new offline flash tool since last year? Pls hint me there...


And also meanwhile I lost track of the many images... What's the right one for my need? 20240331 MAX 16M1M [ESP32] ?

[Ath]

The image you show is an ESP8266, so that's not going to accept any ESP32 build...

Included in the downloads from the Release page we have the original Espressif (Windows) Flash Download tool, where you have to flash an ESP82xx binary at Address 0, and for ESP32 (all derivates) the .factory.bin binary, also at Address 0.

Edge and Chrome are supposed to work with the Web flasher, but you have to allow the page access to your COM port (assuming Windows has recognized that port).
It is possibly you first need to install a driver so the device is recognized by Windows as a COM port, you can check that in the (Windows) Device Manager after connecting the ESP. I can't read the text on the serial chip on your board-photo, but the often used CH340 should be auto-recognized.

[M*I*B]

The image you show is an ESP8266, so that's not going to accept any ESP32 build...

Ok, then my bad gut feeling didn't let me down.
I wasn't 100% sure whether the ESP32 might be called something else. But when you say they screwed me over, that match with my gut feeling.

So at the moment no need for trying to flash any ESP32-FW into this crap ...

EDIT:
Looks like there isn't an ESP32 with 16M available anywhere at the moment... at least not in DE...
Conversely, that means that I'm not making any progress here either... Really sickening

EDIT 2:
Can I use this one (if they ship to DE) ?
https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/developme ... -8mb-psram

[Ath]

Can I use this one (if they ship to DE) ?
https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/developme ... -8mb-psram

That's one of my favorite boards for ESP32 Classic (as we call it). not cheap, but good quality. While the specs say it has 8MB PSRAM, it actually has 2MB (AFAICS), but that's not a real problem, as we don't actively use PSRAM yet.
They do ship to DE, AFAIK, so shouldn't be an issue to obtain one (or more).

NB: I'd claim my money back from the other supplier, but check your order carefully, as it may be you actually, accidentally, ordered the wrong item, especially some Ali pages can be very difficult to fill in and receive the desired product.

[M*I*B]

... jupp ... I will search a little more. Shipping from NL isn't cheap ...

The fraud item comes from eBay. I have checked it many times. So here you can see that the dealer offers an ESP WROOM-32 with 16M Flash. Picture show it and also the item description...

[TD-er]

Even the one on the photo of the Ebay page isn't a 16MB version.
It is an ESP32 (on the Ebay page), for sure not a 16 MB version.
The ones you received are ESP8266 NodeMCU boards.

[M*I*B]

... jepp, that's for sure ...
This dealer is obviously a grievor at its best.

[Ath]

If you can wait a few days for delivery, this Aliexpress supplier has proven to be reliable, and it shows me this ESP32-S3 unit for 5,77 euro each, with free shipping when ordering > 10,- euro. Not sure what price it shows to you though. And when ordering quickly, they promise* to deliver in 5 days, and that's quite fast.

* These Chinese promises aren't always reliable, so calculate a few days extra...

[M*I*B]

Ty for the hint...

I have try that. Only can order one but for a welcome price of 1,97€ and no shipping fee...
I will see if that arrives here due the Asian have absolute no idea how addresses are build in different country's...

EDIT: Have placed a 2nd order of three for 5,77€ each... I will report if they arrive (or not...)

[M*I*B]

The report to eBay about a fraudulent offer and the negative rating seem to be having an effect. Because after that the seller moved and wrote (translated) the following:

Message from seller
Hello, we deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused by the incorrect delivery. After carefully reviewing your photos and our inventory, we have determined that there was indeed an error in sending your order. We very much regret this incident. We would like to send you the correct ESP32 modules with 16M immediately. Would that be OK for you? We are also prepared to include a return label for products sent in error. We deeply regret the error that occurred and hope that you will give us the opportunity to correct it. Your satisfaction is very important to us and we want to ensure that you receive the products you ordered. Kind regards, Jenny

It's a real shame when such sellers have absolutely no idea what they have in stock and are actually selling... But in the end it's just a fake. Because you receive these texts with almost identical wording from all Asian dealers when a fraud attempt has gone wrong, and in Asia they are obviously all called Jenny, Eva or Maria

BTW: Is there a simple way to check the Flash-size just by inspect the item cold wired?

[TD-er]

On more modern boards you can see some imprint in the metallic cap in the lower left corner stating some info on the memory/flash size.
However on older boards you will only find something like "WROOM-1" or something like that.

The difference between ESP8266 and ESP32 is quite easy to see as the ESP32 has more pins and the module is more square.
The one you did receive was mentioning "ESP8266MOD" which is quite clearly not an ESP32.

[M*I*B]

Thank you for the hints.
The dealer wants to send me what I ordered again along with a return label for the scrap.
When the ordered goods arrive here, I would like to determine visually whether it is an ESP32 with 16M or not.
It's now very difficult for me to even roughly distinguish between all the variants. Since you deal with this every day, you certainly have a much more comprehensive overview of all the variants on the market.

[TD-er]

If the seller will send out a board with an ESP32 which looks like on their picture, then I am quite sure it won't be one with 16M flash. It can be an ESP32 for sure, but I have not seen those ESP32 (classic) boards with a "NodeMCU" look and feel which have 16M flash.

There are for sure lots of ESP32-S3 boards with the same look and feel (slightly "longer" because of more pins) that do have 16M flash.
But ESP32 classic boards with 16M flash typically look different. For example with more stuff added to them or even with the old large "Arduino" board form factor.
So they will probably send you an ESP32 board, but it will likely only have 4MB flash.

[Ath]

The Wemos Lolin board, from the TinyTronics link you shared, has the larger ESP32 chip module (larger metal casing) that has 16MB flash.

The ESP32-S3 usually have N16R8/N8R2 or similar readable on the metal case for 16MB flash & 8MB PSRAM or 8MB flash & 2MB PSRAM, so they are easier identifiable.